Showing posts with label Piramal. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Piramal. Show all posts

Sunday, March 2, 2014

Piramal Glass

Piramal Glass ---

We were caught dead wrong about how we had anticipated Piramal Glass would pay out. A couple of days after the delisting offer was made, we decided that if the scrip continued to trade below INR 80, we would buy a stake in it.

On Monday morning, it was trading at about INR 92. We thought the price was too high and sucked some more wind. Tuesday morning, it was INR 110 and has been hovering around the INR 103 mark.

At Beowulf, we had been sucking our thumbs since the early 70's without any decision and it costs us quite a few bucks....

Well, can't win them all.

Sunday, February 3, 2013

Questions for the Piramal Management

Since we have received replies for all our questions from Piramal, we asked a couple of more questions that we think are very important for investors to know. We will post the reply if and when we get them.



Thanks for your kind reply. As you might have gathered, we are closely following the performance of Piramal Enterprises.

We are extremely happy with the direction that the company has taken to redeploy the assets from the sale of the healthcare businesses. We are happy investors in the company and hope to be a long-time investors in the scrip.

Having said that, we also have a few questions that we would prefer the Chairman / CEO, to address the below two questions either in the conference call on Feb 11 or before. We are happy to call in with the same two questions at the conference call on Feb 11, if need be.

a. What metric does the management / promoters prefer we use to measure the progress of the company over the next three to five years? Right now we are using book value as a conservative, albeit an understated, proxy for the intrinsic value of the firm. We would like the management to establish a clear yardstick (they can chose) and show the progress over the next three to five years.

b. The stock right now is trading at a discount to book value. The book value is conservative as the Vodafone investments are still held at cost. Given these two factors, why is the Company not buying back stock more aggressively? Is the IRR of the new investments so much more higher than buying back stock? Secondly, if the IRR is indeed higher, why is the company not taking more debt to do buybacks?  If the IRR's for internal projects are higher, it implies that the company is trading at an even lower multiple / discount to book value?

Thanks for your patience in addressing the questions. 

Piramal Conference CAll for Q2 2013

It was an interesting moment when Piramal did not hold the conference call for Q2 2013. Also coincident with it was the fact that it was a quarter where the Piramal announced losses.

Instead of relying on speculations, I decided to ask the company and below is the verbatim answer I got back


"We have experienced that the participation of analysts / investors community in the results conference call has been dropped significantly. Management has guided us to organise conference call with limited frequency. However, we are happy to answer your queries over the mail or telecon."

Sunday, December 2, 2012

Piramal Debt

Given the increase in the debt, I asked Piramal Investor Relations as to where the debt was being deployed. Below is the answer I got.


Piramal Enterprises

With Vodafone estimated at the lower ranges, DRG written down, Abbott Labs A/R's discounted, and the Pharma business estimated very very conservatively with the entire R&D unit and the financial services unit written down to zero, we have can calculate that the sum of the parts is 106% of the enterprise value of Piramal.

There are not many things that need to go right with this scrip in order to make money. Given the track record for Mr. Ajay Piramal over the last twenty five years, it is not improbable to assume that some things will go right for the company. It is important to understand that this management has grown sales at 28% CAGR over the last twenty five years and profit at 31% CAGR. A leopard does not change its spots overnight. We are strong believers in the current management.

Nor has the company been a one hit wonder over the last 25 years. All the areas that the company is dabbling right now -- real estate, pharma is something this company has forayed successfully in the past.

What are the risks we see with the scrip?

1. I asked a question to the investor relations whether the board had ever discussed a succession plan for Ajay Piramal? The answer was no. We hope Ajay Piramal lives long but we would like to see a plan.

2. The company may be perceived as a holding company and trade forever at a discount. The key to understand is that most of the controlling companies of Piramal do not trade separately on the market. At the parent company level, Piramal can control where the cash flows are going to be deployed (unlike a normal holding company that does not have access to all the cash flows)

3. De-worsification as against diversification. Piramal has indicated that they do not plan to get into any other new fields.

We are comfortable with these risks as these are covered by the strength in the balance sheet.

What are the catalysts for the stock

1. Vodafone IPO or payment back to Piramal.
2. New Molecule out of the R&D sector
3. Payments of debt from the proceeds from Vodafone and Abbott A/R's
4. CRAMS start making more money
5. More buybacks given the inflow expected in the next couple of years.


We expect to see the Income statement and Balance Sheet strengthen over the next 24 months. We will be watching closely the next eight quarters. We have selected this time frame to watch whether this is a value trap or a diamond in the rough.

Given the strength in the balance sheet, we think the risk would be limited to opportunity cost. We will collect the 4% dividend yield and whatever appreciation the scrip sees. However, this does provide an unique opportunity to participate along with one of the shrewder and ethical user of capital.

We do not expect to see miracles in the next quarter or two but do expect to see strengthening in the next 8 quarters.

We will review the latest news to see how the thesis is playing out over the next few quarters.



Saturday, November 24, 2012

Taking Stock so far

In the previous posts, we had looked at the Vodafone Investment, Abbott Labs deals and payments and the DRG acquisition.

These three represent about 90% of the enterprise value for the firm. The calculation was done very conservatively, and we think the returns from these look to be credible.

We have still not looked into the CRAMS, OTC and the critical care business or the remaining portion of the healthcare segment. Also, we will look into the PHL acquisition and the NBFC and India REIT acquisition as well. On top of that, you get the management of Ajay Piramal.

More to follow.

DRG Acquisition (Part Two) -- The good and bad....

So, what do we think of DRG?

We think it is a terrific business. It provides market relevant key information to the Pharma industries that make long term bets on drugs. Good information is absolutely the key to success. The barriers to entry are big as it is tough to replicate the information and add more value and displace DRG at its clients. Piramal claims that 48 out of the top 50 global Pharma are their clients with about 95-95% client renewal rate.

Renewal rates as a % of the R&D budgets of clients is a small. Combined with good information, it can make the customers sticky to DRG.

Combine a good business with a moat and good margins, (15 to 30% EBITDA) (More on EBITDA nonsense later) strong cash flow and low capex -- you get a good durable business. We certainly think that the DRG business will be more valuable ten years from now.

At the buying price of Rs. 3,400 crores or 194 INR a share, it represents around 23% of the enterprise value of the Piramal business.

Now for the meat of it all. What are our concerns?

a. Price paid for the acquisition
b. Pricing Power
c. Foreign Exchange Risk
d. Return on the acquisition

Price paid for the acquisition --- A terrific business is a terrific business is a terrific business. But it is not a worth an infinite price.

Did the seller know more than the buyer? The seller was a PE firm called Providence Partners. In more ways than one, it is good news that it is not a strategic seller on the other side, but a firm with a finite timeline for every investment it makes. PE firms have to maximize returns and at the end of the fund's period, investments are usually milked as against providing the money for growth into the future. So, this might provide some upside potential.

Piramal paid 4X revenues. At 15% margin, it is 26X EBITDA and at 30% margin it is 13X EBITDA. The company indicated that the comparable companies in the space are selling at 10 to 18 times EBITDA. However, higher the margin, higher the sale price for the firm as well. Capping it at 18 times EBITDA, would put the EBITDA margins in the mid 20's for the firm.

We would like to make a huge disclaimer here, we are not enthusiasts on using EBITDA. Any metric that does not take into account Capex and Depreciation and neglects both as non-expense is suspect for us. However, given the limited information on the target and the fact that the business is a low capex business, we will continue looking at EBITDA for this business.

The company has grown at 20% between 2006 and 2011. That sounds like a great number. We have two concerns that came out in the conference call during the announcement of the acquisition.


Question 
Three short questions; one is about the 20% CAGR over the last 5 years, can you 
broadly break it up into what was organic and what was inorganic; second question is if 
you could expand a little bit because you are a gold standard, it’s a 6.5% share, what 
prevents you from taking a larger share from that pie, is it that you just have to offer 
more services or you have kind of reach the ceiling with what you offer and the third 
question is when you look at the 2.4 billion number that you gave us, is that just a 
function of a total outsourced market and is the market even larger when you look at 
what is in house versus outsourced. 

Jon Sandler 
In terms of the breakdown of CAGR, I think what I will do is I will talk about how we 
think about it on go forward basis which is we think that roughly 50% of growth rate on 
the go forward basis can be achieved internally and 50% of that will come from 
acquisition.  

The company said that 50% of the growth will be organic and 50% will be inorganic. We are concerned about this. As the company, grew about 20% in the back five. Conservatively, we can assume that the company will grow at the same rate in the next five years. (As the company grows bigger, keeping the same rate becomes tougher and tougher) 10% of this will be organic and 10% will be inorganic. For a US based business, with the top 48 of the 50 firms already as clients, we think 20% is aggressive. Even if one were to assume that, 10% will be organic, the other 10% will require additional investments. This is a red flag for us. Providing working capital for a low capex business is different than taking into consideration the acquisition costs to price in future growths.

Our second concern came from another question. My first reaction on reading the news about the acquisition was, -- lip smacking pricing power in this business. Here is what the company management had to say in response to a question


Analyst --- My question was, you have grown at 20% CAGR in the last 5 years so of that how much 
would have been through value and through volume, essentially you are adding new 
clients every year and deriving the revenue growth or from the same client you have go 
the pricing power on the basis of the quality of product? 
Jon Sandler 
So the growth has largely been driven by volume


The growth was driven by volume. This makes me wonder. If the information is the moat around the business, and DRG is the gold standard of the industry, what is causing the lack of pricing power? This is our second red flag.

So, the question we ask ourselves is how much should we pay for a business that can probably grow 10% organically in the future with no demonstrated pricing power (though it is there potentially) and EBITDA margins between 15% and 25%. The answer is 10 to 18 times EBITDA from a PEG ratio of 1 for a 10% growth business with 15% EBITDA to a PEG of 1.3 for a 15% growth business with 25% EBITDA.

Thirdly, the revenues and cost are in $, the business itself might not require any hedging but the Piramal scrip in India trades in INR and the underlying assets of DRG are in the US. For the same margin and growth rates, at INR 45 and 55, the returns on the acquisition will be vastly be different. The acquisition was done with INR USD at 55. While we do not profess any expertise in knowing what time the sun will rise tomorrow, let alone the exchange rate a few years from now, we are nervous about the currency risk. On the positive side, one can also see that it forms a natural hedge against the gyrations of the Indian market.

We think the return on the acquisition might turn out to be lower than the priced paid for it. Conservatively, we are going to write down the value of the assets by 20% (We are happy to have positive surprises in the future) We will value the DRG assets at INR 155/share or 2,900 crores or 21% of enterprise value. We think there is upside to this but the conservative investors we are, we will stick to this number.


DRG Acquisition (Part One)


On may 17, 2012 Piramal announced that they were buying Decision Resources Group (DRG) for about $635M (Rs. 3,400 crores) The deal was fully funded by debt for 18 months at 5.5%. After 18 months, the deal will have a 1:1 debt to equity ratio.

In order to avoid the rehash of the DRG acquisition, we will include the post acquisition slides and analyst meet from Piramal.

Please note that most of such post acquisition meet are filled with optimism. We caution the reader to keep this in mind as they read into the below.

If you are interested, look up the post acquisition call for Time Warner and AOL from the internet bubble days.

Presentation Link



Transcript Link

Abbott Labs Piramal Enterprises (Part Two)


We will quickly look into the economics of the Abbott Labs and Piramal Healthcare transaction that has generated this massive balance sheet for Piramal.

We will look into two slides that was presented during the deal closing. The domestic formulation business was sold was approx. 9.0x EV/sales and 30 times EV/Ebitda. The diagnostic business was sold was 3 times EV/sales and 16x EV/Ebitda. The elephant in the room is the domestic formulation business which was valued at $3.8B.

As the second chart shows below, the deal was one of the richest in the industry.






Usually, 75% of M&A fails because of overpaying. There are various academic studies that point to that. We will not address it here. Here is a case of a very shrewd seller, selling the business at a very expensive price. Just to make sure that the economics of this is understood well, in the words of Ajay Piramal.

Link


How do you view your role as a leader — is it being a savvy investor or is it more of a turn-around specialist?
I have an obligation to my shareholders, to create maximum value for whatever they have invested and that’s what my job is and that’s what I am here to deliver. I don’t carry an egoistic or emotional attachment to the businesses. We did a calculation to justify the value that Abbott paid — I would have had to grow the business for 15 years at 20% CAGR with an operating margin in excess of 35%. Now that’s not possible and therefore, the choice was should I leave aside my ego that it is my business and I created it, or should I do what is in the best interest of shareholders. If you look at like that, that’s what a leader ought to do, in my view. Job of a leader is to act like a trustee



For the entire presentation, please see below (From Piramal's site on Oct 22nd, 2010 --- ( Link))

Sunday, November 18, 2012

Abbott Labs Piramal Healthcare Transaction

To give a quick background on the deal, the various options for the deal. Post the deal, there were a lot of questions of whether the transaction reflected the best value for the shareholders. Was Piramal better off spinning of the unit to be sold into a separate market entity and having Abbott go through an open tender?

My take on this --- the offer price would have been a lot lower than the 9X EV/sales and 30X EV/EBITDA multiple that Piramal got for the unit.

 I am going to point to a third part legal and tax consulting firm that put out a report on the Abbott and Piramal deal as soon as it was done.

It was a very interesting read. (Link from Nithin Desai Associates website)


Abbott Labs Part one

In the Initial Article we had pointed out that the receivables from Abott Labs for Piramal was about 4, 000 crores as of Nov 2012.

Discounting for 2013 and 2014, the present value of the receivables is about 3,400 crores or about 194 a share.

This accounts for about 24% of the enterprise value.

No discussion of this deal is complete without an analysis of the transaction with Abbott labs. We will do several posts on the same. The multiples were eye-popping though the transaction (slump sale) was questioned by some. We will address and point to work done by others on the same.

The Vodafone investment along with the Abbott receivables account for over 70% of the enterprise value. In the next half a dozen articles, we will examine the DRG acquisition, the CRAMS business, OTC and Critical Care business, PHL finance and also the superior management you are getting for your money.

Vodafone Investment


Piramal made an investment by buying 11% of Vodafone's Indian arm in two tranches for Rs. 5,800 crores. Post the deal, Vodafone's stake in its Indian arm was reduced to 64% (below the 75% SEBI guideline)

The first tranche of 5.5% equity was bought in August 2011, followed by another 5.5% equity in Feb 2012.



The first question is what is a healthcare company doing in Telecom field? 

On Feb 6, 2012, the CEO, Ajay Piramal, had the following to say. 

Ajay Piramal -- "Coming to Saturday’s announcement, we have now invested a further 3,006 crores to buy an additional 5.5% stake in Vodafone India Limited. With this purchase, our total investment in Vodafone is now 11%. As we have said in the past, the idea here is to utilize surplus money for short term to invest in globally reputed companies in high growth sectors in India with intent to generate higher returns that can be earned rather than investing in fixed deposits and fixed maturity plans. Just to make it clear, this is not a strategic investment, we have no plans of entering the 
telecom sector and we hope to exit this investment  in the next 12-18  months either through an IPO or a stake sale."  (Emphasis added)

Let us switch over to Vodafone to see what they have to say about the deal on their annual report. (link)-- page 59

In respect of our interest in Vodafone India Limited (‘VIL’), Piramal Healthcare (‘Piramal’) acquired approximately 11% shareholding in VIL from Essar during the 2012 financial year. The agreements contemplate various exit mechanisms for Piramal including participating in an initial public offering by VIL or, if such initial public offering has not completed by 18 August 2013 or 8 February 2014 respectively or Piramal chooses not to participate in such initial public offering, Piramal selling its shareholding to the Vodafone Group in two tranches of 5.485% for an aggregate price of between approximately INR 70 billion (£0.8 billion) and INR 83 billion (£1.0 billion).

What does this mean for the investor?

There are three scenarios. (We will talk pre-tax here)

First scenario -- Vodafone does not do an IPO but pays Piramal INR 7,000 crores. Assume that the deal takes place on Feb 2014. Discounting the entire amount at 15% (for present value),  the gain on today's terms will be Rs, 1,020 crores. Using an very aggressive tax of 30%, the entire stake will be worth 6,616 crores in today's terms or INR 378 a share. 

Second scenario -- Vodafone does not do an IPO but pays Piramal INR 8,300 crores. Assume that the deal takes place on Feb 2014. Discounting the entire amount at 15% (for present value),  the gain on today's terms will be Rs, 2,125 crores. Using an very aggressive tax of 30%, the entire stake will be worth 7,500 crores in today's terms or INR 429 a share. 

Third Scenario -- Vodafone goes ahead with an IPO in Feb 2014. (Could be earlier) The company will need to be valued north of 85,000 crores (pre-tax for Piramal) for further upside for Piramal Enterprises. Conservative investors that we are, we will neglect this embedded option in the table.

Given that Vodafone holds only 64% of its arm in India, it is possible that Vodafone can buy back the entire stake from Piramal without violating SEBI's 75% ownership law.

On a very conservative basis, we are going to value this stake at Rs. 6,616 crores for Piramal. (We are already nine months into the 18-24 month window)

For investors who like to calculate EPS, the INR 6,616 crores will be available for further investment. If just left in a bank @9%, it will earn INR 600 crores a year. Remember that the stock is at a discount to its book value, so the effect on the earnings yield will be higher.

The investment is around 47% of the enterprise value.


Piramal Enterprises -- An introduction

As of November 18th, 2012, Piramal Enterprises traded at INR 472.2 on the NSE. The market cap for the company is at 8,100 crores. There are 17.5 crores shares that are outstanding. (One crore in Indian Terms is equivalent to Ten Million) The company has equity of 11,296 crores and loans of 6,331 crores. The enterprise value is at 14,400 crores.

The key is to determine whether the company is trading at a discount to its intrinsic value as an on-going concern. Currently, The company had a loss of INR (82) crores in the recent quarter and hence it does not have any PE ratio.

My personal criteria from the investment is to invest in a growing business, with a good management at a 15%+ earnings yield at an attractive price. For a 15% earnings yield, the company must be capable of earning about INR 1,200 crores a year and redeploy to grow or return back the money to the shareholders. Because the company is trading at a price to book ratio of 0.7, a 11% return on the shareholder assets will provide a return of 15% earnings yield on the scrip.

Background

Piramal Enterprises used to be primarily in the healthcare business. In 2010, it sold the domestic formulation business to Abbott Labs and the diagnostic business to Super Reliagare. The deal unlocked about INR 17,800 crores for the company.

The company's investor relations was kind enough to provide me a breakdown of the 17,000 crores (as of Nov 2012) as used by the company.


Capital gain tax - Rs. 3,600 crores 
Buy back of shares - Rs. 2,500 crores 
Investment in Vodafone - Rs. 6,000 crores 
Financial Services - Rs. 1,000 crores
 Receivables from Abbott - Rs. 4,000 crores 

The capital gains tax has been paid and the buyback has been completed. 11,000 crores is what is left from the deals out of which another 4,000 is yet to hit Piramal's coffers from Abbott Labs. 


As of today, as seen in the company presentation below, the company's assets include the Vodafone investment, acquisition of DRG, Financial services, CRAMS and PEL business.


We will look into each one of these in subsequent posts.


Piramal Healthcare -- Game Plan

At Beowulf Capital, we believe in a few ideas but good ideas. We do thorough research and try to cover all angles. As we have selected Piramal Healthcare, you will see a lot of blog posts on the same stock.

The idea is to divide and focus on one aspect at a time. This means, the entire idea will roll out over a period of a few weeks or months.

In subsequent posts, you will find detailed breakdown analysis for Piramal on

Introduction and where we stand today.

a. Vodafone Investment
b. Abbott Labs Payments
c. Piramal Sale to Abbott Labs
d. DRG acquisition
e. PHL Finance and REIT India
f. CRAMS and Piramal Life sciences business.

Once we have covered all the different aspect of the business, we will focus on

a. Management quality
b. Price at which the scrip is available
c. Financials
d. Moat around the business
e. Rough back of the envelope calculation of intrinsic value etc.

In between, we will also post relevant other links that pertain to the topic at hand.


Piramal Healthcare CEO Ajay Piramal Interview (Link to Blog)

Piramal Healthcare Overview from Piramal Site

In order to prevent myself from repeating what is out there in the net already, here is the overview of the company as shown by the company in October 2012 to Analysts. We will discuss this presentation in a subsequent post.



Piramal Healthcare

The site will host a number of articles and posts on my latest buy -- Piramal Healthcare.

Please note that these posts are for educational purposes only. Please do your own due-diligence before acting on any of the posts. The Posts / articles are not recommendations to buy / sell.

We will start by pointing out to a few really good analysis that already exist on the web and can be read to get a background on the stock we are talking about.

Fundoo Professor Blog Post of Piramal

Value Investing in Practice -- Piramal

Piramal -- Territory of unknown and unknowable

Safal Niveshak INterview with Fundoo Professor